Do you have enough faith to be an atheist?
It wasnβt meant as a trick question. It just came up in conversation. I was talking with a lifelong friend who has started attending an Alpha Course. Like many in our modern, secular world he is open to the possibility that there might be a God but doesnβt see that there is enough evidence. Having faith in a God seems a step beyond reason, a leap in the dark. He is an atheist because he doesnβt think he can have the kind of faith that he sees in believing Christians β¦
So β¦ you donβt have enough faith to believe in God β but you do have enough faith to be an atheist?
β¦ I asked him. Meaning what?
Atheism is a faith with a set of beliefs
Is atheism really some kind of faith? Yes. Like any other faith itβs possible to identify atheismβs central beliefs. Granted there is some variance across atheist believers β like any other religion. And depending on who you talk to, some atheist believers are even βfundamentalistsβ, intolerant to any other worldview, and evangelistic in spreading their own beliefs β again like other religions. Here is what we could say is their basic creed:*
- The universe exists by chance
- Everything can be discovered by science
- Humans are the ultimate judge of all things β there is no final moral reckoning
- Any value or purpose of life can be worked out from the wisdom of mankind
- Nothing exists beyond this life β there is no ultimate source of trust in the universe
- There is no purpose or meaning to the universe (And itβs a silly question to ask anyway β see below)
- Human ideals are progress, tolerance, and individualism
β¦.. that looks like a belief system to me. But not only that, secular atheism is pretty exclusive in its beliefs:
Atheism is a faith that claims there is only one kind of truth
If itβs not scientific it doesnβt count
The idea that we must answer all questions about our universe and our being by science alone is widespread. Thereβs even a name for it βScientismβ β which roughly means that all questions must be answered by scientific method, all truth must be amenable to science. Now science certainly is an excellent tool for understanding our world but it cannot answer a lot of questions we as humans have, like say β¦ Why is there a universe at all? β¦ What is the value of a human being? Richard Dawkins says these are βsilly questionsβ, which is a cheap shot at saying thereβs something wrong with you if you ask them.
Letβs look at another faith β the one that believes in God.
This faith takes on board not just science that emerges empirically from a lab, but ALL the evidence. As well as science, this faith takes on board historical evidence for the life of Jesus Christ and the reliability of the Bible (evidence which is a mile high compared with many historical events). This faith considers the facts of an empty tomb and the witness of early disciples who were transformed into starting a worldwide movement called the church. This faith takes seriously the notion that our universe is incredibly βfine-tunedβ for life to an almost incomprehensible extent. And this faith takes into account peoplesβ experiences over 2,000 years β people who convincingly claim their lives have been changed. This faith understands that there are other kinds of evidence and other kinds of truth besides scientific β¦ there is spiritual, ethical and moral truth, there is experiential truth, truth as allegory and metaphor. There is literature, history, philosophyβ¦. There is not just science.
Scientism in any case is self-defeating. Saying βitβs not scientific so ignore itβ β¦ is itself not scientific. There is no scientific theory that says βall answers must come from scienceβ, no experiment that can prove βscience must be your only worldviewβ. Surely the way to approach all questions is to say, I want to find out the truth β even if that that truth lies outside my narrow comfort-zone.
Atheism is a faith that doesnβt add up
John Lenox, Professor and Christian at Oxford points out something else: if your brain is the result of mindless, unguided processes β why would you even trust it?
To be sure, atheism is a belief system in many ways like any other. Yet when you say that to atheists it touches a raw nerve as I have found β but great discussions can result!**
Prof John Lenox again:
Atheists like to say that Christianity is a fairy tale for people who are afraid of the dark; I suggest that atheism is a fairy tale for people who are afraid of the light
I donβt have enough faith to believe that the universe is some kind of gigantic car-crash, a colossal accident that just happened to come about. I donβt have enough faith to believe that there was a big bang followed by an ordered world. Itβs a step beyond reason, a leap in the dark. I donβt have enough faith to be an atheist.
This blog was published by Premier Christianity and attracted a lengthy comment threads as did a reply post by atheist Cory Markum.
Next in our series The Atheism Thread: The Atheist Who Didnβt Exist
*List mainly derived from Mission Under Scrutiny, Andrew Kirk
** See for example extended comment threads on a previous blog and also here.
[β¦] This article was written for the Unbelievable and published by Premier Christianity Looking for more? Try Do you have enough faith to be an atheist? [β¦]
I believe that traditional/conservative Christianity can be proven false in just five minutes by knocking out the three pillars of the Christian Faith (belief system): 1. The Bodily Resurrection of Jesus 2. The Accuracy of Old Testament Prophecy 3. The Witness of the Holy Spirit And here is the evidence that destroys these three superstition-based claims: 1. Based on cumulative human experience, it is much more probable that the early Christian belief in the resurrection of Jesus was due to one discipleβs bereavement hallucination (probably Simon Peterβs) than a once in history reanimation of a three-day-brain-dead corpse. Persons who experience hallucinations… Read more »
Hi Gary β sorry for the delay in my reply β didnβt see your comment on this previous blog. Here are some points in reply: Not sure where you get βthe three pillarsβ from. These 3 are not called out as pillars in any Christian creed or statement of faith I know. There are many βpillarsβ of Christianity. Nevertheless the 3 you choose are important to Christians, so worth discussing. 1. Your explanation of the resurrection only deals with one aspect of the evidence β physical sightings. It doesnβt deal eg with the complete change of character in the disciples such… Read more »
βScientismβ is a Theist strawman where you accuse those who believe in Science of taking a completely unscientific attitude towards Science.
Itβs like accusing feminists of kidnapping women and chaining them to office cubicles. Itβs A rediculous exaggeration that completely defeats the point.
Thanks for commenting De Ha In reply:
β I also βbelieve in scienceβ. This is not an either / or
β It is true that there are people (i have come across several) who believe the only evidence that is acceptable is empirical / directly derived from science. And I believe this is a limiting position. It is not a strawman.
β It is unscientific to suggest that science can be your only worldview or that all answers must have a scientific basis, since this statement itself is not provable scientifically
There you go again! βScience can be your only worldviewβ is a strawman. Hell, even the word βWorldviewβ is a concept I tend to reject. Rule of thumb; if you canβt find where someone SPECIFICALLY said the thing youβre accusing them of saying, donβt say β since this statement itself is not provable scientificallyβ I stated no such thing or anything close to any such thing. In your mind, I IMPLIED it, but your fever dreams are beyond my controll. This is exactly why itβs a strawman that makes no sense. You think βScienceβ is just a thing the elete do… Read more »
Iβve found that Christians love to equivocate on the term βfaith.β Biblical faith is not merely something like, βoh, I have faith that the sun will come up tomorrowβ or βI have faith my car will start.β Biblical, religious faith is belief even when there is no strong evidence or reasons to support your beliefs. Some typical examples of this kind of faith, which are highly praised by βGod,β come from Hebrews 11 (the βHall of Faithβ chapter): Abraham went out of his country (by faith) not even knowing where he was going, and Sarah was past childbearing age, but… Read more »
Matthew β hi and thanks for reading and commenting. Your points have been discussed at length β see the threads above or for a much more gruelling discussion check out the Premier Christianity link β and also Cory Markum;s atheist response which is very helpful. I cant respond all over again, however, just in brief: β Yes I maintain that atheists have a set of beliefs in common (some of which are noted in the article) and these beliefs have an element of trust β¦ and yes they therefore can be regraded as taken on faith β You mention evidence and reason… Read more »
Youβre equivocating on βbeliefβ and βtrust.β βBeliefβ or βtrustβ in a chemistry experiment or in testable scientific theories is not at all the same as a βbeliefβ or βtrustβ that god will make a 90-year-old woman pregnant (e.g. Sarah in the bible). You really are violating the 9th commandment here. βYes,β I am interested in empirical/scientific evidence. Hopefully you are too. You wrote that there is βhuge evidence and reason for Christianity,β but no one disputes that. Of course Christianity exists and has had a long history. I assume that you meant to say βfor god,β rather than βfor Christianity,β… Read more »
Hi Matthew
For me there are 4 understandings in the word βfaithβ mentioned in scripture Hebrews 11 being one.There is also βthe faithβ which Christians are a part of.
To reject a Creator God and settle for a 30000000000000000000000000 (at least) chance of creation just happening requires a decision βa decision based probably on other peoples ideas.
As someone who came to faith 10 years ago Iβve concentrated much of my reading since then on deepening my understanding of the Christian faith, and how to better live it out. Itβs been valuable to understand a little more the varied thinking of people who do not believe in God/a God. Thanks for writing the blog and inviting comments.
Thanks Paul. Of course atheists hold a wide spectrum of views on all sorts of things although, as this blog suggests, they will have common views on matters concerned with the nature of the universe, the nature of being etc.
It wasnβt meant as a trick question. It just came up in conversation. I was talking with a lifelong friend who has started attending an Alpha Course. Like many in our modern, secular world he is open to the possibility that there might be a God but doesnβt see that there is enough evidence. Having faith in a God seems a step beyond reason, a leap in the dark. He is an atheist because he doesnβt think he can have the kind of faith that he sees in believing Christians β¦ So β¦ you donβt have enough faith to believe in… Read more »
This comment is pending deletion due the contributorβs use of profane language.
[β¦] to beliefs which are clearly a result of their atheism. We covered many of these in the recent post Do you have enough faith to be an atheist? In fact Andy shows that not only is atheism a belief system β a faith β it is a core part of an [β¦]
[β¦] I didnβt and I donβt have enough faith to believe that incredibly implausible scenarios happen in sequence, by accident. I donβt have enough faith to believe that things appear and start by themselves. I donβt have enough faith to be an atheist. [β¦]
Well, the fact that some atheists β the people β might accept some things on faith doesnβt mean that atheism is a position of faith. Atheism β the definition of the actual ism β is that one doesnβt believe any gods exist. That doesnβt have anything to do with faith. Faith is a possible reason for believing something as true; not a reason for not believing something as true. Faith is implied to be belief about something. I freely grant you that some atheists β the people (!!) β might possibly accept some of those things. And possibly on faith… Read more »
Hi Illum Thankyou for commenting! I will take your comment in 2 parts: First, you make the often quoted statement that an atheist βdoesnβt believe any Gods existβ ie you feel that atheism is βa lack of beliefβ. This is what atheists often say but if it was true then anything which βdoesnβt believe any Gods existβ could be called an atheist β eg my keyboard and my desk would both be atheists. So actually atheism is more than that. Atheism is a belief / a claim / a positive statement that there is no God. That is a belief, and… Read more »
WOW! Not sure how I got to this page, but ill leave my mark. Atheism is not a belief system β its an adjective like blonde or tall. You cannot infer anything about an aetheist other than they donβt believe in god. Just as I cannot infer that theists are weak minded or homophobic. I can statistically infer things, and those statements would be valid, but not polite to infer, as you may have just discovered. This is called stereotyping. Atheists mostly to be children of the enlightenment who cant be pressured or frightened into believing things without evidence, it doesnβt… Read more »
Hi Damien β thanks for reading and taking the time to comment β I appreciate a site like this is not your usual source for reading material! βAtheism is not a belief system β its an adjectiveβ We keep hearing this statement. And yet we see that atheists do have beliefs. We can infer a set of beliefs that atheists share (in addition to the starting belief that there is no God). Eg most atheists would say that the universe and life have arisen through natural causes, or βnaturalismβ, that there is no ultimate source of trust in the universe,… Read more »
Hi Chris,
You seem to have ignored a large chunk of my contribution or perhaps just not understood it.
Another example perhaps: Just as the label theist does not tell you whether a person believes in Allah or Zeus, nor does the label atheist tell you somebody believes in evolution. Again; yes you can make statistical inferences based on survey data but then your not describing a person, your making inferences about a person.
To your second point: it is completely wrong that we could provide treatments for these suffering and dying children
whoops.β¦ hit post prematurely
To your second point: it is completely wrong that we could provide treatments for these suffering and dying children. There are many thousands of ailments we cannot cure even with all the will and resources in the world. Even if we could, this would have only been true for the past decade. As of 200 years ago, a full 1/3 of children died before the age of two. What kind of cruel god would do such a thing. Answer: Loki?
Hi Damien Not ignoring your points Damien. There is nothing new here that hasnβt been debated many time. Iβll try not to omit anything, but keep things brief: 1. Your point β¦ labels .. atheists / theists and stereotyping etc Iβm not talking about labels. I am talking about what the people behind these labels believe β βin the mainβ.. Letβs go back to your βstatistical inferencesβ point: So for example most people who are βreligiousβ believe in God, but not all of them do. And yet I think itβs a reasonable βstatistical inferenceβ that people denoted as religious mostly… Read more »
HI Chris, You are talking past me at this stage regarding my first point. In case it has been lost in the semantics: Atheism says nothing about a person other that they donβt believe in a god. But you can take it or leave it I suppose. Re suffering, just to name a few: Cancer, Alzheimers, HIV, AIDS and type 1 diabetes. There would be many others if you cared to look. If we are talking infants specifically then: Premature babies (20 weeks), SIDS, Pnemonia, Whooping cough, cogenital diseases, infections and general birthing problems like asphyxiation. The first two on… Read more »
I am British and based in the UK β its freezing! β good to made your acquaintance. Pointβ1 You feel I am talking past you, whereas I feel you are sticking to a single isolated point and not wanting to see the consequences of that point. Iβll try a slightly different approach: Letβs AGREE that βAtheism says nothing about a person other that they donβt believe in a godβ. I agree. β¦β¦β¦β¦ However, for people who actively argue against the existence of a God, which you are tending towards, (so called hard atheists but in any case not agnostics) there… Read more »
Hey. No I donβt have any beliefs that aetheism has let me towards (as you say). Why would it? If you started from a belief in god then it might change things for you but thatβs not a sensible starting point. I began life not believing and continue to not believe in any gods. The absence of a god does not figure into my assessment of almost every decision I make and thought I have. Thatβs fine I knew you could not account for the suffering in any sensible way. Many academic religious scholars more articulate and knowledge than both of… Read more »
Damien Hey β and apologies for the delay β sometimes (both of) my jobs just kick off but I will always TRY to come back and answer comments. (I will also remain polite and not accuse you of waffle :-)) On the main point: atheism leads to a specific worldview / set of beliefs, I think that is entirely self-evident but you strongly disagree. I think we have probably had that discussion by now. Thatβs OK. But letβs go back to your suffering point which you still claim as a key argument against the existence of God: You say that a… Read more »
Hi Chris, Feel free to accuse me of waffle if you think Iβm guilty of it β I definitely wont take offence, although I may disagree. No I never said βgod would not allow sufferingβ or any permutation of this. This term is pretty popular now; strawman β you are responding to a point I never made. The point I did make was made repeatedly and has been made by many great thinkers and religious scholars β although you seem to be much busier than i am, so I will be charitable and assume it was an innocent mistake. In… Read more »
Hey Damien β this is becoming a βscroll festβ right, but maybe we can squeeze in a couple more comments (β¦ or we both get RSI in our fingers ο) I get your point Damien, but I have to push your argument to its practical outworking, otherwise its simply canβt be real. I feel you are adopting similar approach in both your arguments ie 1. With the βatheism does not lead to a particular world viewβ, you take atheism on its own and separate it off from the practical set of beliefs we find that atheists generally share. (I know you… Read more »
Atheism is like faith and has many attributes of a faith but it is also different from the faith as traditionally understood. I have the first hand experience of some of the features that make it very much similar to a faith. In the Soviet Union atheism or naturalistic worldview blended in with atheism and scientism was systematically enforced through educational system. When I was growing up, there was a time when simply talking about God or taking religion seriously would make people laugh at you.
So yes, atheism is kind of a faith.
Hey Agashin, your Soviet Union experience is incredibly interesting β thanks for sharing that. I wonder if it is still the case there that, unless you are an avowed atheist, you are ridiculed?
Actually, it is quite opposite nowadays, Chris. I grew up in Azerbaijan (Muslim-majority nation) and during the Soviet regime (it was one of the 15 republics within the USSR) majority of people in my country were secularized Muslims who did not care much about (any) religion. Basically, the religion (in this case Islam) was reduced to folk faith of older generation. But after the fall of the Soviets the situation drastically changed. Nowadays conservative Islam is on the rise and being atheist in my country is not as accepted as it was, say, twenty years ago. Nowadays, atheism is kind… Read more »
Interesting Agshin. Of course militant Islam is on the rise in many countries so I guess the situation you describe should not surprise us. Although I disagree with atheism as a belief system I would always defend the rights of people to choose their own faith β including atheism.
Hi Chris Just read the Atheists Faith blog. really good and certainly made me think. Some really good points I will use next time I get in a debate with an atheist!
Yes agnostics for example could possibly (maybe) claim to have βno beliefsβ., but atheists have beliefs and need to own them instead of just throwing rocks at othersβ beliefs. Thanks for commenting.
One of the best yet! Excellent! Many thanks .β¦.. typo β¦βfairy takeβ
Thanks Martin β you have a VERY keen eye β typo duly corrected π
Not sure I will remember all your points but really good summary of what exactly atheists believe (even though they say they donβt believe!)
Good of you to read and comment APK
Great insights Chris! As you rightly point out atheism is itself based on faith β that there is no meaning or purpose to the world and everything is a matter of chance. But if I am going to say that I donβt want to say that I have no meaning or purpose either β instinctively i want my life to matter. Also it is tautological β if there are no absolutes how can I make an absolute statement that there are no absolutes? The real issue seems to be I donβt want there to be a God, and there are… Read more »
π Good summary! I was just about able to follow your thought process there.β¦. Key point for me is that new atheists like to poke fun at people of faith .β¦.. but in fact are themselves people of faith.
Hi Chris thanks for this that is a really interesting concept I have never thought that Atheism is a faith. I really enjoyed this article thanks for sharing
I guess the only people who could credibly claim to have no faith are people who do not believe anything .β¦ Thanks Cathy!